Monday, July 9, 2012

arts students wanking each other

I made a new friend on omegle yesterday his name is Darren, I ran into him again today on omegle (I have been spending too much time on omegle lately, I want to go back to school) Here are the logs of the two chats I have had with him aka arts students wanking each other

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You and the stranger both like tao lin, and raymond carver.
Stranger: hi
You: i like you
You: already
Stranger: thank u
Stranger: i like u too
Stranger: they my fave authors, i think
You: do you like most of tao lins stuff? I dont like his most recent couple of books
You: but I love Bed and You are a little bit happier than I am
You: Raymond Carver is one of my favourite authors
Stranger: oh okay. i like all his books, bed is probably my favorite though
You: yeah I just thought Richard Yates was a bit I dunno, obvious?
You: Richard Yates the author is amazing though!
Stranger: hmm okay. well i found the story/writing style very original.... i haven't read any of the author, actually
You: I own Cathedral and What We Tak about when we talk about love, but have read all his short stories except Fires
Stranger: i should...
You: yeah read revolutionary road
You: it is incredibly bleak but incredibly funny
Stranger: okay
Stranger: sounds good
Stranger: i didn't know it was funny
You: my favourite two combinations
You: well not jokes funny
You: but just the situation is funny
You: I think I find some books funny when other people dont
Stranger: do you like tao lin's twitter? (speaking of bleak and funny)
You: no I try to not look at any of Tao Lins internet presence because I think I would hate him and I dont want to ruin my love for Bed/You are a little bit happier...
You: Do you know Zachery German?
Stranger: haha okay, fair enough
Stranger: yes, i am a fan of zachary german
Stranger: i imagine you wouldn't be?
You: No I really love him
You: I just think he does that style in a much better way than Tao Lin
You: but that is just one book
Stranger: yeah i definitely understand that, but i think they were aiming for two very different things. i see german in more of the raymond carver type tradition and tao lin in sfaa + ry i think was doing a more philosophical / conceptual art type thing, maybe... kind of
You: oh yeah I totally agree with you
Stranger: sweet
You: I guess I think of the idea of philosophy and art comes out of everyday ideas and just focussing on reality and the nature of humanity/your mind in a way much more powerful than aiming for art itself
You: this might be a weird question but do you know a guy called Jackson Nieuland?
Stranger: haha yes i do. i am a fan of him too
You: haah he is a friend of mine
You: its weird how big he is in the internet literary scene
You: everyone knows hi,m
Stranger: oh cool. he has "liked" a number of my things heh heh
You: I guess it is still a small scene
You: oh yes, he does that
Stranger: that's how everyone knows him i guess, but i actually really like his writing
Stranger: do u have an internet presence
You: oh yeah he is incredible
You: I guess
You: I try to keep out of the internet literary scene to an extent though, I find there to be a lack of criticism in it which I find unnerving
Stranger: yeah i definitely agree... you happen to have mentioned people i really like but i stay away from a lot of it
You: yeah I dont mind reading them and getting to know them, but I would rather put my own work out by other means
You: like just creative writing classes, zines, sending it to people that I know will be honest etc
Stranger: fair enough, yah.... i find it hard to find anyone who will be honest though
Stranger: until you have a large audience, ppl just share w/ their friends, who are always nice, it seems
You: yeah I have just got into quite a hardcore short fiction workshop which I hope will help with that
You: or atleast make connections
You: apparently Jackson is a really honest and awesome editor
You: do you have an online presence?
Stranger: ... mostly i post found photos
Stranger: but sometimes writing things / other stuff
Stranger: that is interesting about jackson...
You: cool I'll follow you anyway
Stranger: oh sweet
You: yeah my flatmate is one of his best friends and she has a really good relationship with him about stuff like that
You: I'm going to try and get him to look over my stuff when he gets back to new zealanf
Stranger: sweet... where is he now
You: usa, visiting his girlfriend
You: where do your photos on your blog come from?
Stranger: oh nice. i'd imagine he would just "like" whatever people show him heh heh...
Stranger: i get them from sites like flickr, picasa, photobucket, just random peoples' albums
Stranger: in the vain of
Stranger: (is it vain or vein)
Stranger: (i thin vein)
Stranger: *think
You: (vein) nah I think that is sort of a character he has created to go with his stories
You: I think he thinks about that sort of thing a lot because it is quite important with current literature
You: you are not only the work you create, you are everything around it
You: its an idea I find kinda unnerving but I guess I do it too to a smaller extent though.
Stranger: hmm yeah. your "brand" is what ppl say, i feel uncomfortable w/ the term
You: except I havent made anything up, I try to be really earnest
You: whats your name?
Stranger: i asked jackson via tumblr inbox if he truly likes everything he "likes" and he said, "i believe i do" or something
Stranger: my name is darren
Stranger: and yours?
You: I'm Eamonn
You: oh I'm sure he does
You: he is trying really hard to see beauty in everything
You: and everything written in its own merrits
Stranger: yeah, i do like that a lot. i get that in his writing as well
You: maybe I sound like I'm being hard on jackson, I don't know him super well, but I think he is trying really hard to do what he does which is very admirable
You: I do everything half assed
Stranger: yeah he does try hard it seems
Stranger: i have frozen i think
Stranger: or is that just on my computer
Stranger: hello
Stranger: oh no
You: oh sorry
You: I was just being really still
Stranger: oh it's ok
Stranger: is my thing frozen though
You: yeah I think it is
You: yeah
Stranger: heh heh
You: oh well
You: I dont really need to see you anyway
You: do you have facebook?
Stranger: my facial expression is interesting there
Stranger: yah
Stranger: my facebook is XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
You: cool I'll add you, you seem cool enough
Stranger: oh thank you
You: and now youre back
Stranger: sweet ass
You: I'm going to send this omegle conversation to Jackson I think he will enjoy it
Stranger: haha cool
Stranger: he will like it
You: seeya
You have disconnected.

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You and the stranger both like Frederick Barthelme, Tao Lin, and Raymond Carver.
Stranger: hey
You: !!!!
You: hey
Stranger: oh sup heh
You: you like frederick barthelme now!
Stranger: i added fred bartheleme to my list yeah hehe
Stranger: i have only had 2 ppl work with the common likes thing
Stranger: (u being one of them)
You: his collection Moon Deluxe is my favourite collection of short stories
You: no one likes frederick barthelme, it makes me sad
Stranger: oh cool, i will read it, i have actually only read bob the gambler
You: I had an okcupid profile which is gone now and I searched frederick barthelme and not a single person had listed him in their favourite books
Stranger: haha yeah
You: my profile was actually called moon_deluxe
Stranger: and ppl like his brother, donald, i don't understand
Stranger: nice
You: yeah I know
You: I mean I do like donald
You: but no where near as much as fred
You: I havent read bob the gambler
You: I want to now
Stranger: hmm... i've only read like a few sentences of donald's, but i will probably never read more
You: he got way better
Stranger: i really recommend bob the gambler... one of my favorite books
You: he went really weird, then back to being good in the 80s
You: I havent read much donald
Stranger: hmm ok
You: I understand why he is studied because he was such an influence on postmodern literature
You: and kinda took it to the extreme
Stranger: extremely boring, that is.....
Stranger: hehe nah i haven't read him so i don't know
Stranger: i am keeping real still
You: good work
Stranger: thank u
Stranger: haha nice, what book
You: its a book by Faye Weldon
You: cant remember the name
You: its one of her first
You: she is an English writer that usually deals with feminist issuess
You: I just bought it from a book fair today for $2
Stranger: i've always liked faye as a first name
You: yeah, i havent thought about it
You: but the name Fay Weldon is cool
Stranger: jesus, she has a lot of books (looking at her wikipedia)
You: yeah so many
You: it doesnt have an e on the end
You: I always add es where theyre not needed
Stranger: heh
Stranger: i have a vague memory of frederick barthelme once having twitter (pre 2010/his death) and him tweeting "girl crying in a bath tub" or something
Stranger: i thought about that today
You: I didnt know frederick barthelme died
Stranger: oh damn
Stranger: he died in 2010, i think
You: I guess I dont mind, I didnt know him and people dont generally create their best work in their late life.
You: I would have thought I would have read it on his wikipedia page
Stranger: true, but b the g was 1997, and i think it was very good... i don't know.... i would be happier if he was alive
Stranger: one the few like really good ass minimalist prose writers... would be nice if he was alive
You: yeah have you read any ann beattie?
Stranger: a little. have read distortions and am reading chilly scenes of winter currently
Stranger: and u
Stranger: damnit
You: I want to read distortions, I read one of her later collections of short stories called perfect recall, it was pretty good but I kinda annoying at the same tim
You: time
You: like she seemed too old and out of place from the people she was talking about
You: I wrote a review of it I'll link it to you
Stranger: oh sweet
Stranger: yeah from what i've read/heard her later stuff wasn't as good
You: I did like her style though
Stranger: have u seen michiko kautani (or however u spell it) 's review of her latest book
You: neither the public library or my uni library has distortions
You: no do you have a link?
Stranger: yeah i'll link. yeah i searched for distortions for a long time, finally used there is prob an nz version, if so i recommend it
You: I'll get it from bookdepository sometime maybe
You: when i have money
Stranger: interesting review
Stranger: funny that she would bad mouth smashing pumpkins
You: yeah there was this line that was something like "what happened to music like this, it stopped being made years ago, all replaced by the Smashing Pumkins."
You: it was a character thinking this, but it was really out of place
Stranger: haha. and the book was written in the 2000's?
You: yeah 2001
You: well published then
You: the stories could have been over a much longer timne
Stranger: oh yah, true
Stranger: did u read michiko's thing... she is really harsh
You: it wasn't really the time period that bugged me but more the idea that came across that there has been some sort of degeneration of culture from the heyday (when she was a 20 something) to the future
You: but it was done without thought I think
You: I should write her a letter and ask her what she meant by that sentence
Stranger: yeah, but it could have been the character thinking that and not her
Stranger: haha yes you should
You: yeah im half way through
You: oh yes it was done through a character but it wasn't really in line with the character, like it felt like ann beattie speaking through her.
Stranger: yah, i see
You: but that could have been me reading too much into it
Stranger: i feel like there has been a [antonym of degeneration] of culture in 2000's+ era
You: really?
Stranger: yeah
Stranger: like omegle for example
You: but omegle is just a way of people expressing this cultural desire that has been here for a long time
Stranger: i think the possibilities omegle presents for the arts, and also considering it as an art thing itself, like performance/conceptual....
Stranger: yes but now it is possible
Stranger: and the internet, generally. i think it's the greatest thing that's happened to art ever
Stranger: damn
Stranger: nice job
You: I think it has given the ability (or will give when it becomes even more widespread (not just through the young and reliatively wealthy)) for a huge number of people to experience art and have a way to distribute their own art, it pulls art away from the context of galleries and fine arts schools to a much more accessable space
Stranger: yes - but i think it already is that widespread / not only available to relatively wealthy, the UN have said internet access is a human right, for eg... but i don't think the internet only allows for a recontextualization of art, i think it allows for entirely new possibilities within art. like what would be an equivalent of a recording of an omegle chat in any previous art thing?
You: look at tumblr, I hate tumblr mostly, but it has given a generation (is there a word for an age group smaller than a generation, I feel with technology moving so fast these generational differences are changing faster and faster) of young people access to a platform to show what art, what photography, music, style, fashion, writing, ideas they are interested and sends messages to them. Its interesting thinking of whether tumbling itself is an art, like is the mixtape or a dj set an art, arranging other people media into your own context to express yourself? Is is any less worthwhile than creating your own shit
You: oh yes I think it is getting that way, but it will take 10 years for it to actually come into affect. Part of the reason the reliatively wealthy use the internet in the way they do is because they pretty much grew up with the internet, they are natives at using it and are accustomed to the culture of it including the way it changes consistently, poorer people havent had that same experience so are trying to learn the culture of the internet rather than grow up with it. I think thats what sets it apart rather than simply just access to the internet.
You: sorry I think we're having two simultanious discussions here
You: i think its my fault
Stranger: heh heh no it's ok
Stranger: yeah, maybe true, what u said re global culture / internet
Stranger: re: other thing,
Stranger: yeah. i do think that is art, but i don't really feel interested in that (compiling various things) as an artform necessarily. i feel more interested though in "tumblr culture" - i think that is the real art of tumblr, and it is something that is not comparable across as other mediums/things.
You: true I think I got sidetracked over what is art/not art which is not the truely interesting thing about tumblr
Stranger: like that is an entirely new thing, and we can look at it as art because of the internet. like the internet keeps a record of all these things that are happening... for example there are these two internet people, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, who are in a relationship. and you can go back on their blogs and see their relationship develop, understand the dynamic of their relationship, and i find that really amazing/exciting
You: that is pretty voyeuristic
You: says the guy on omegle video chat
You: it is exciting though
Stranger: haha yes. but that's i want when i read things like tao lin, raymond carver, ann beattie... like it is so realistic it is like being a voyeur... kind of...
Stranger: idk
Stranger: i mean more actually, that these things that were previously only part of private experience, we can now view them by seeing them on the internet. like the novel tries to explain / comment on private experience, and i feel the internet can do that too in an even broader, more full way
You: yes it completely is! Humanistic writing, where you are relating to humans when reading is such a powerful thing.
Stranger: yes
Stranger: nicholson baker is someone i like very much in that category, btw
You: I guess it is becoming less relevant where we have these other ways of relating to humans through the internet
You: cool I will save him
Stranger: sweet... you mean you think humanistic writing is becoming less relevant?
You: no it was just an idea I threw out there, it is always important to feel like we are relating to humans
You: no matter the format
You: do you ever feel like the internet alienates people from feeling this humanistic relationship?
Stranger: i think i feel like every medium can offer a different thing, in regard to conveying or creating experience. i feel like every medium will always be relevant, always have something new and unique to offer, but the internet is the broadest / most possibility-ful one yet
Stranger: i actually don't think so
Stranger: because,
Stranger: i was talking to someone about this via email the other day (heh)
Stranger: like, w/ my favorite writers, i feel i would feel immediately comfortable around them if i were to ever meet them, because i feel like i know their secret / the private part of their experience, like i know they are human.... and i feel like the internet has allowed for this kind of connection to take place in a broader, more interactive way, that IRL interaction can't always. of course it isn't a replacement for IRL interaction, but i feel like it really can enrich. jackson nieuwland and his gf, for example
You: yes I think it has the ability to do that, but I dont think that is the only effect it has. Sometimes when I am using things like facebook, I feel like instead of actually interacting with people, I am interacting with their online presence. I keep up to date with a lot of friends over the world not by communicating with them but by through their facebook posts. It seems like a really disconnected way of interaction, a very efficient way because I can keep up to date with 300 friend or something through my newsfeed but I dont actually talk to many of them. I should really get better at actually trying to put myself out there and converse because I feel like all these thoughts I have get structured through conversation.
You: Nicholson baker sounds cool, what book would you recommend to start with?
Stranger: yes, true, but i feel like... the difference between using facebook chat and speaking to some one in real life is not that important. like, what does it really mean to be in someone's physical presence while interacting w/ them. if i was talking to you in real life now, i would be struggling/not managing to say what i am trying to, and i would then get disappointed, run away, and go talk to ppl i already know. with ppl sitting on their facebook feed instead of going out/interacting with the ppl... i feel like, yeah, they are alienated. but life has always been alienating. you would be equally alienated reading a novel or watching tv
Stranger: well the mezzanine is his first novel and i think is very good. so i guess that one. i have read like 3 of his books, have only discovered him recently-ish myself
You: so I think there is a degree of both alienation and interaction made through the internet, and I guess it is up to internet culture to make sure that interaction is seen as the most important thing rather than efficiency, even though I know a lot of cool people (i went on an exchange when I was a teenager and just from online) that I have met while travelling, and in theory I could keep in contact with them all through the ease of the internet, it is more important to get this humanistic connection going where you can actually interact, rather than just keeping in touch. Its pretty important to let friends go, rather than sacrificing connections with potential other people by keeping in touch.
You: but I guess it is very easy to get back in touch with people anyway.
You: what do you think the fiction/non fiction difference is like
You: is it important for what you are reading be real or fictional if it gives you the same connection or feeling?
Stranger: um, it is not important to me... i have felt more the connection/feeling in reading fiction than i have in non-fiction... partly because i feel like fiction is more true, because you are being upfront that it is fiction, whereas with non-fiction, it is never possible to write something completely true but you are claiming it is true... but idk, i think both could potentially offer the same thing i guess
Stranger: what do you think
You: I'm not really sure, I read an essay by E.L. Doctorow last year sometime that was trying to say that there is no difference between Fiction and Non Fiction, or at least no solid difference, he was mainly referring to historical fiction in his writing but I think his idea translates to all types of fiction. It doesnt really matter if things are fictional or not as long as it is believed by some people, history is so subjective anyway (pretty much the post modernist view on history) that it is all fictional in one way or another, I think that is essentially what you were saying above
You: its been a while since i read the essay so I'm probably missing out on some essential detail
Stranger: yah true... i think agree there is no difference, i am inclined to see all fiction as non-fiction, since it is non-fictional about the fact that it is fiction, and all non-fiction as fiction, since its non-fictionalness is fictional
Stranger: hehe
You: haha thats a good way of thinking
You: I have to write three music reviews tonight so I have to go. do you mind if I put the logs of our chats from the last two nights on my blog?
Stranger: oh yeah sure
Stranger: sweet ass
Stranger: good luck w/ the reviews
You: cool, talk to me on facebook if you see me online I've enjoyed talking with you
You: cheers seeya
Stranger: seeya
You have disconnected.

Today I listened to: Jesu, High Dependancy Unity, Jesus and Mary Chain

Today I read : Adrian Brody by Marie Calloway and The beginning of Down among the women by Fay Weldom

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